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Supernatural Nitpicks!
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Sarah
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 478


Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly? I'm not really a big...muscle person. I KNOW, I KNOW. You don't need to tell me I'm crazy.
But there's all these little girls at the CW boards going on about how Jared's body is so much better than Jensen's because he's all ripped and has huge pecs and massive biceps and a defined 12 pack and stuff.
...but while I'm all for Jared's look, I gotta admit that Jensen's more low-key, almost more natural muscle works for me more? I like slim. I'm not really into a lot of bulk. And growing up in a family of carpenters where there's a lot of construction workers around all the time, I know the difference between hard-earned strength and fitness, and gym-fitness. You know? Eh.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing Jared at all. Just...that whole flex-for-the-camera and show your big muscles thing was sort of 'eh' for me. It's all in what you like, I suppose. The part of that scene that I thought he looked best in was the last bit where they're just lying down and he's not flexing and they're not zooming in on him. He looks so much more normal and natural in that bit.

ANYWAY. Below, I've categorised the "girls of Supernatural" into four separate categories. I think we should create either one thread for each of them or just one thread for all of them so we can discuss the pros and cons. *nods wisely*
This >> denotes a pop-in or minor character.

1) I don't like:
>>Lori Sorenson
Cassie
Jo (although I was okay with her in BUaBS)
Madison

2) I'm okay with, but could do without:
>>Haley
>>Rebecca
>>Emily
>>Pam
The cop chick in TUS
Tamara
Bela

3) I like:
>>Andrea Barr
>>Amanda Walker
>>Charlie
>>Jenny
>>Missouri (although I'm torn on her, because of how she treats Dean)
>>Kat
Layla
Kate
Tessa
Lenore
>>Beverley Tanner (though that's more like...she's a good crazy chick)
Dr. Lee
Angela Mason (aka Zombie Chick)
Lindsay (how AWFUL was she? awesome. <3)
Tyler
Maggie
the first CRD in CB
Tara
>>Lily
Lisa
Katie's mom (name? can't remember)
Ruby
Casey
Mrs. Carrigan

4) I adore:
Mary
Jessica
>> Constance Welch (she was a friggin' awesome ghost)
Meg (FTW!)
Sarah
Ellen
Ava
Molly
Mara
Carmen


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Jule
I LOVE THE SMURFS


Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 68


Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExtraCookie wrote:
As for "Bugs," I enjoy it. There's no Supernatural episode I don't!  "Bugs" is merely bad for a Supernatural episode.  I loved the family talk, etc. too (and I think it has my favorite gay jokes.  ". . .OK, Honey?", then Sam's mortified look--always funny!)

Aw, the butt slap! How I could I forget about that? I can't even count how often I watched that scene. I love it!


Sarah wrote:
Honestly? I'm not really a big...muscle person. I KNOW, I KNOW. You don't need to tell me I'm crazy.

Dude, if you're crazy I'm right there with you.   Very Happy   I'm not into bodybuilder-muscles either. I like the natural, sporty-looking ones, not the gym-looking guys.


Sarah wrote:
Below, I've categorised the "girls of Supernatural" into four separate categories. I think we should create either one thread for each of them or just one thread for all of them so we can discuss the pros and cons. *nods wisely*

Yes, we should definitely have a thread for the girls.
Ahem, this is kind of embarrassing because I have watched every episode at least twice (except the season three ones, I'll have to wait for the DVDs) but who are Pam, Lindsay and Tara?

And look at those ads. *points* All about muscles.   Laughing
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Sarah
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jule wrote:
Aw, the butt slap! How I could I forget about that? I can't even count how often I watched that scene. I love it!


Classic scene, classic scene...

Sarah wrote:
Dude, if you're crazy I'm right there with you.   Very Happy   I'm not into bodybuilder-muscles either. I like the natural, sporty-looking ones, not the gym-looking guys.


Awesome! I was beginning to think I was alone in this fandom!

Sarah wrote:
Yes, we should definitely have a thread for the girls.
Ahem, this is kind of embarrassing because I have watched every episode at least twice (except the season three ones, I'll have to wait for the DVDs) but who are Pam, Lindsay and Tara?


I have them all on my computer, so I watch them WAY too often. Now that you mention it, I can't remember which one Pam was. Neutral I went through all the episodes and grabbed the names of the women that were in them. Lindsay was Angela Mason's snivelly roommate. And Tara was the actress in Hollywood Babylon. Smile

Quote:
And look at those ads. *points* All about muscles.   Laughing


*snort* Oh, Google.
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ExtraCookie
NO CHICKFLICK MOMENTS


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 269



PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, I can't believe I'm talking about muscles online *snicker*  That's just funny! Embarassed   But, actually, I'm pretty much the same way; I like slim/muscled.  But I have some leeway with it, and Jared's just fine!  I do just really hate the wrestler/bouncer/Mr. Universe kind of thing, though!  I think that's actually very ugly, freaky and icky!  Bleh.  Those greased up wrestler dudes make me want to hurl!  Jared should stop where he is, though.  After all, with Sammy traveling around so much, where's the opportunity for hitting the gym, right?!  They both really should have the more random-exercise (that they get from ghost/creature hunting!) look, yes?  (They should have extra strong necks and shoulders from all those times of trying to pull themselves off of walls/tombstones too!  Hey, that's where Sammy got those bulging shoulders/upper arms! Laughing )

As to the Supernatural chicks, damn, I can't even remember a lot of them!  I'd need to rewatch all the episodes!  

So, where is this thread, so I can say I liked Cassie just fine, although, yes, her acting was weak in a few spots.  But, hey, nobody's perfect.  And I think, personality-wise, Layla would be PERFECT for Dean.  But surely she's dead and their spiritual/religious differences surely couldn't have been overcome.  Sorry, this isn't that thread, is it?!  Ack!
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ExtraCookie
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Too Much of One Brother, Not Enough of the Other? Reply with quote

I put this in this section not because I'm nitpicking anything, but it concerns a nitpick I just became aware of a few minutes ago.  I was surfing the net Supernatural-style and learned that some fans feel that one brother is focused on more than the other.  Furthermore, it goes both ways:  Some think Sam is the main character while Dean's the sidekick and others think it's the Dean show while Sam has little character development.  

This actually surprised me, as I've always felt it was 50/50!  Some eps. are more Dean-centric, others more Sam-centric while yet other seem to focus pretty evenly on both.  I've never felt one brother was focused on or favored more than the other at all.  To me, both guys feel front and center always.  

I'm just wondering how widespread this is among the fans and if anyone around here shares the above nitpick.  I find this nitpick to be very interesting!  Maybe either I look to hard at the show or not hard enough.  

So, what do you think?  Are the guys focused on pretty evenly?  Or not?
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Sarah
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 478


Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Much of One Brother, Not Enough of the Other? Reply with quote

ExtraCookie wrote:
I put this in this section not because I'm nitpicking anything, but it concerns a nitpick I just became aware of a few minutes ago.  I was surfing the net Supernatural-style and learned that some fans feel that one brother is focused on more than the other.  Furthermore, it goes both ways:  Some think Sam is the main character while Dean's the sidekick and others think it's the Dean show while Sam has little character development.


I've heard this a LOT. People are very divided on the issue, no matter where you go.  

Quote:
This actually surprised me, as I've always felt it was 50/50!  Some eps. are more Dean-centric, others more Sam-centric while yet other seem to focus pretty evenly on both.  I've never felt one brother was focused on or favored more than the other at all.  To me, both guys feel front and center always.


You're not alone. I completely agree. If you go episode by episode, one brother is usually the main character of each one, unless it's a "brothers" episode. I think if you look at the seasonal myth arcs, it changes from season to season as to who is the main character. In the first season, Sam was the main character. He was the one being pulled back into that life, he was the one with the powers, he was the one who lost his girlfriend, etc. In season two, it was a "brothers" season; Sam was possibly going darkside, they were both suffering after their father's death, Dean was trying to save Sam and deal with having to kill him if he couldn't, etc. They were pretty equal. Now, in season three, though Sam's got the Boy King thing going on, Dean is the main character because of his deal and the focus on that and saving him. The episodes themselves are still equal as far as shifting focus goes from one to the other to both, but the overall myth arc changes each year.  

I think the issue people have is that they're either Dean!fen or Sam!fen and ne'er the two shall meet. I am a Dean!fen, but I see that there is a balance between the boys. It's not that I dislike Sam, it's just that I can relate more to Dean's inner feelings (not his outer personality of jackass/womaniser) and I like his man pain. Wink
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ExtraCookie
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Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 269



PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I think the issue people have is that they're either Dean!fen or Sam!fen and ne'er the two shall meet."  Let's see.  How to word this.  I am more. . ."into" Dean.  I mean, I'm more romantically attracted to him.  But the thing is I am a "fan" of both boys.  I think they're both absolutely fantastic and the show needs them both equally and I love them both to pieces.  I don't like one better than the other.  I just like them each in different ways (I want to date Dean, I want to adopt Sammy as my little brother.  Um, but, you know. . . if Dean died, hey, who knows what could happen?  Heh heh.  Wait. Is that twisted?).  

Yep, I see what you're saying.  The main issues, so to speak, may focus back and forth between them from season to season, but I think that, regardless of what's going on, both brothers have been considered equally, fleshed out equally, had equal screen time, equal writers' devotion, etc.  It's never ever felt out of balance to me.  

The show fascinates me with how it can show one thing and hundreds all see that one thing, and it's taken in hundreds of different ways!  Like how people complain that Dean's portrayed as stupid.  I don't get that at all.  Dean's seemed extremely intelligent from ep. 1 to me!  He's common sense intelligent, not studying/booky intelligent like Sammy (well, he is.  Just not as much.  Just like Sammy has good common sense/instincts too, but not as good as Dean).  He's got fantastic instincts, etc.  Actually, that seems messed up.  If they don't get the impression he's stupid in the first place, then how could he be being portrayed as such?  Isn't that a. . .paradox (I think that's the word I'm looking for)?  

On this particular nitpick, however, you and I, Sarah, are getting what Eric is trying to get across.  I read an interview where he stated that the show isn't focused on any one brother.  It is indeed equal; or at least that's how he means it to be.  I wonder if he ever gets blown away at the way some people interpret his show.
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Sarah
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExtraCookie wrote:
Let's see.  How to word this.  I am more. . ."into" Dean.  I mean, I'm more romantically attracted to him.  But the thing is I am a "fan" of both boys.  I think they're both absolutely fantastic and the show needs them both equally and I love them both to pieces.  I don't like one better than the other.  I just like them each in different ways


I agree. Everyone here knows I'm a diehard Dean!girl. That doesn't mean that I don't love Sam or that he's not totally necessary to the show. In fact, Dean wouldn't be Dean if not for Sam. Part of why I love Dean's character so much is because of the devotion he has to Sam. You can't NOT be a fan of both boys because they are so inextricably entwined. Sure, I relate to and am more physically attracted to one than I am to the other, but whatever! Sam is awesome and so important.

However, some people prefer one brother over the other, whether character-wise or on a purely asthetic level, and they take that character-centric love of the show to all knew (and selfish) levels, usually turning it into resentment of the other brother because they want 'their' brother to have more face time. It's ridiculous.

Quote:
The show fascinates me with how it can show one thing and hundreds all see that one thing, and it's taken in hundreds of different ways!  Like how people complain that Dean's portrayed as stupid.  I don't get that at all.  Dean's seemed extremely intelligent from ep. 1 to me!  He's common sense intelligent, not studying/booky intelligent like Sammy (well, he is.  Just not as much.  Just like Sammy has good common sense/instincts too, but not as good as Dean).  He's got fantastic instincts, etc.  Actually, that seems messed up.  If they don't get the impression he's stupid in the first place, then how could he be being portrayed as such?  Isn't that a. . .paradox (I think that's the word I'm looking for)?


I see what you're saying, yeah. But I think the portrayal they dislike is that when he's always eating or being shown up by Sam, or we are reminded that Sam is the book-smart college boy or when somebody has to figure things out for Dean or calls Dean stupid, we're being sent a certain message: Dean has a lower intelligence level. Or he's just plain dumb. And the reason they complain about that is that we've seen him prove time and again that he's really smart, as you described. So when we KNOW that he's smart and he's PROVEN it, and then the characters on the show make fun of his inferior intelligence, we're being sent mixed messages. But I think that that's part of the appeal of Dean's intelligence -- it's understated and often hidden, and it adds to his character because he's got low self esteem, which is just fed by people believing he's dumb. Despite the fact that he ISN'T.  

Quote:
On this particular nitpick, however, you and I, Sarah, are getting what Eric is trying to get across.  I read an interview where he stated that the show isn't focused on any one brother.  It is indeed equal; or at least that's how he means it to be.  I wonder if he ever gets blown away at the way some people interpret his show.


It's not even just equal. The focus isn't on "Sam. And. Dean." or "Sam and Dean", it's on "SamandDean". You know? It's on them AS brothers. It's not on each of them as individuals who happen to be brothers. It's about brothers. That's the difference. That's why it'll never NOT be an equal focus. Even if a specific episode focuses on one more than the other, the other will always always always be there and be a part of it.
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Jasmin
I LOVE THE SMURFS


Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ExtraCookie wrote:

Yep, I see what you're saying.  The main issues, so to speak, may focus back and forth between them from season to season, but I think that, regardless of what's going on, both brothers have been considered equally, fleshed out equally, had equal screen time, equal writers' devotion, etc.  It's never ever felt out of balance to me.  


I agree with you, but I'll say that. What I gathered from most fans that have issues with the balance is that Dean has no other reason for being there other then the fact that he's Sam's brother.
If you look at the big picture, the mytharc that has been going through all three seasons it's Sam's and has really nothing to do with Dean. Something's wrong with Sam, Sam's the boyking and I think that's why people feel that Dean is neglected overall.  He has no affiliation, I'll say with this storyline other than being Sam's brother. The baddies seem to be interested in Dean only for the sole reason that he's Sam's brother and they can get to Sam through him. I also think that's why so many people hope that Dean's deal will have nothing to do with anybody wanting Sammy.
If you're talking about screentime/ fleshing the characters out etc. I don't think there's any balance issues at all.
If you break it down by seasonal mytharcs, there's no problem either. S1 was all about finding dad, S2 was about the secret-What's up with Sam, S3 about Dean's deal-pretty balanced if you ask me.
Did that even make any sense?
I'm more of a Dean girl myself and I wish he was  tied to the overall story with more then just being Sam's brother, but I do love both of them.
SN wouldn't be what it is without both brothers.
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Sarah
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morning, Jasmin!

Jasmin wrote:
I agree with you, but I'll say that. What I gathered from most fans that have issues with the balance is that Dean has no other reason for being there other then the fact that he's Sam's brother.


:shocked: WHAT?
Are you...
You're ser...
WHAT?

But if it weren't for Dean, Sam wouldn't have been roped back into it in the first place! And the fact that he IS Sam's brother and he's the other half of the dynamic that keeps the show going means he MUST be there. It's not like "Oh, Dean's only there because he's related to the dude. We could top him and have a show about Sam."

Quote:
If you look at the big picture, the mytharc that has been going through all three seasons it's Sam's and has really nothing to do with Dean. Something's wrong with Sam, Sam's the boyking and I think that's why people feel that Dean is neglected overall.


OHHHHHHHHHHHHH. That's the complaint from the DEAN fans. Gotcha. I was having a heart attack, thinking the Sam fans had dismissed Dean out of hand because he shouldn't even be there or something. *breathes* From the Dean fans, I can see why they feel Dean is neglected as far as which brother has the fantastical myth arc goes, but I don't think he's neglected in that myth arc. He's the force, the anchor, the support behind Sam. He's the one who has carried the burden of Sam's and John's secrets, of protecting Sam, of finding a way to save him from his 'Boy King' fate. He's the one who sacrificed his own soul so that Sam could live. He's the one whose death drove Sam to become more like their father, more of a soldier. Without Dean, there is no Sam.

And you can extend that back through their lives. Without Dean, there would be no Sam as we know him. Sam Winchester would not have grown up loved and cared for and protected from dark secrets and darker monster by his big brother. Sam Winchester would not have been able to rebel against his father and take off for university if not for his big brother standing as a breaking wall between them. Sam would not be Sam if not for Dean and vice versa.

Quote:
He has no affiliation, I'll say with this storyline other than being Sam's brother. The baddies seem to be interested in Dean only for the sole reason that he's Sam's brother and they can get to Sam through him. I also think that's why so many people hope that Dean's deal will have nothing to do with anybody wanting Sammy.


I don't think it will. I mean, sure, maybe there'll be an element of "haha Sam, I've got your brother's soul and I'm tormenting it for all eternity...how's it feel, baby boy?" But for the most part? Dean Winchester is a damn good hunter. Dean Winchester has spent twenty-four years of his life being trained to hunt evil supernatural beings. He has sent numerous demons back to Hell. He killed Azazel. He brought Sam (the Boy King) back to life. He is a MAJOR thorn in the asses of all the demons in Hell. Why WOULDN'T they want to take his soul and work it over? But yeah, there's also the fact that they think that with Dean gone, Sam will be more vulnerable and that will torture Dean even more. What they don't know, of course, is that Sam will not be more vulnerable. Broken, yes. But he goes into a single-minded, rage-driven homicidal freak out. Shit goes down!

So yeah. Dean Winchester is damn important. Part of that is his influence on Sam Winchester. But that's not the only part. Hell wants both brothers.

Quote:
Did that even make any sense?


It all made sense, yes. Very Happy

Quote:
I'm more of a Dean girl myself and I wish he was tied to the overall story with more then just being Sam's brother, but I do love both of them.
SN wouldn't be what it is without both brothers.


I see where you're coming from and agree. But I'm happy to believe that he's tied to the myth arc in a very important, irreplaceable way. Smile I suspect that Dean also has something going on with him, too. His hunting instincts are far too honed for there to be nothing special about him. And Hell seems to distrust and want him way too much. Like in "Crossroad Blues"...why would they give up JOHN WINCHESTER just to get Dean's soul? Hm?

Some food for thought!

Am now off to get a full-body massage. FUCK YEAH. *runs*


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