Episode 2X17 "Heart"

Wardargon · Episode 2X17 "Heart"

Okay, I'm assuming we're calling spoilers any information about episodes that haven't aired in the US yet, so I'm placing this one outside of the Spoilers folder.. Please let me know if I am wrong and need to move it.

Discuss the last episode "Heart" here! What did you think about it?

I had a whole list of problems with this episode, but after watching it a few more times (still skipping over the actual stupid sex cliche part which was about as pointless to the episode as I expected it to be) I've come to like it a little more.

What I hated:

Sam sleeps with this chick after knowing she was a werewolf, which is so gross and so irresponsible and so STUPID I was actually grinding my teeth about it. Demon powers or no, he could have ended up one himself.. And dude, just yuck. Couldn't they have come up with a better time to do that whole useless scene? Like before he knew he'd be risking his life and while his brother wasn't out risking his life doing the job? I know the writers can't always be bothered with the finer details, but this was a little too blatant to ignore, and it ruined some of the episode for me.

The episode also gave me little reason to even care about wereChick not knowing she was a wereChick. I hate overdramatic damsels so I pretty much gleed when she finally got snuffed.

Also, I hope now that Dean has gotten some and Sam has gotten some and they no longer need to worry about that nasty lack of sex disease going around, we won't get any more done-to-death soap opera rolls in the hay hording in where they could be placing quality plot ideas instead.

And onward:

Sam getting all emo over wereChick. Okay, I'm going with some other fan opinions that Sam's emotional response over killing her was about him and his own helpless situation, and I'm going to go with that because it makes a hell of a lot more sense than Sam actually being in love with someone he doesn't even know. And while emo Sam in appropriate areas is good, all those freaking tears down his face as he paused to look at Dean just before he walked into the room to snuff her was just that little bit over the top. I was actually liking the scene right up till then. I think it would have worked for me better if they'd cut that part of the scene out entirely and just had him walk through the doorway after a quick pause and blast her (haha!). Tears are good, but that was a little too much.

I DID enjoy the brother moments as usual, and thought Dean's reaction at the end was perfect. The werewolf costuming was highly disappointing, I've seen better and scarier 5 year old werewolves at Halloween. Actually I can't even call those things werewolves, they looked more like vampires on crack. I guess because of the lack of funding they can't really do much in terms of non-humanoid, but still.. At least a little more hair or something.

So end result is 3/5 for me.

Sarah

You're right. It's aired and therefore doesn't count as a spoiler. Plus you labelled it clearly for those who haven't seen it. So if anyone complains, its their own fault!

Wow. Wow. Your opinion is one that I haven't seen much of lately! Everyone was RAVING about the sex scene on LJ. Personally, I felt it was a little overdone and preferred the Dean/Cassie scene from season one. (Despite my dislike of Cassie for hurting Dean and my dislike of the actress for not being able to act.)

YEAH. I saw all the biting and the scratch marks and was like o.O "Uh oh..."
I also felt it was a little gross. I mean, sure. Something she can't help but would YOU want to sleep with somebody you saw turn into a slavering beast? Then again, Willow dated Oz on Buffy and he was one of my favourites.
I wish he'd slept with her before they found out, yes. Then again, I felt it wasn't a good time for him to have sex for the first time again. I know some people hated Sarah, but I think it would've been more realistic if he'd gone back to her or found someone who he could have a similar relationship with. You know?

I felt Emmanuelle was just like Cassie -- no acting talent! Everything seemed so forced. It really puts into perspective how great the boys are and how powerful their chemistry is when they have people like that acting next to them. I felt the same way about The Usual Suspects. I sometimes wish they didn't have to kill off Meg. I really enjoyed Nikki Aycox.

Or at least if they're going to have a sex scene, make it with someone who's been established as a recurring character. (NOT JO THOUGH.) I've heard stuff about Dean possibly getting a love interest and I know many people are worried that'll take away from SamnDean. I admit I am too. But they're adult men. Let's get real. I just hope she's a good match for him, and they don't do the cheesy soap thing. My ideal sex scene for that couple would be them in an established relationship waking up for lazy early morning sex. You know? None of this first time (at least in a long time) conflicted stuff. And no cheesy songs. Just them waking up and talking and then BOOM. Real People Stuff.

Eh. I understand the tears. What I didn't think was realistic was that a guy would stand there and not wipe them away. I know when my little brother cries, he does the frantic brushing away ritual. And for SamnDean who are all about 'no chick flick moments' I sort of expected him to wipe them away. Then again, that would've ruined his make-up. And I get looking back at Dean -- it was like he was stealing himself and also...almost asking him for help even though he knows he couldn't give it to him.

THE FLINCH (tm). asd;klfja;sldkfj;ldfj;lasj JENSEN.
What is especially great about Dean's reaction is the WHY.
1) He's realising the Sam is serious -- he really wants him to kill him if it comes to that. Unfortunately, what Sam doesn't get is though he likes Madison, he'd known her for 3 days. Dean RAISED Sam and has loved him fiercely for 23 years. ...no contest. Unfair.
2) His little brother crying and having to kill someone he cares about. It's obvious he wanted to keep that from Sam. Told him he'd do it and everything...
As an older sibling I tend to identify more with Dean's emotions than with Sam's. *laughs*

The costume sucked, yeah. But even big budget productions never do good costumes. So I'm sort of glad they stuck with semi-morphing instead of full-on fur. I can just imagine what they would've come up with. "The Curse" anyone? GOD that was bad.

Wardargon

Jasmin

I actually loved Heart for the most part.
I did think it was kinda weird (for the lack of a better word) that Sam slept with Madison after he found out what she was. But then I rewatched the eppy and he thought he had saved her, he didn't think she'd turn, so I guess to him she wasn't a werewolf anymore. Now me personally I'd have still been way to weirded out by the whole thing.
What really bothered me was when she dumped her underwear in front of him on the table. I mean who does that, really? Way to "Desperate Housewives" if you ask me.
As to Sam being in love with somebody he doesn't even know, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I don't believe he was actually in love with her, he liked her, felt connected to her and cared for her because in a way their situations are similar, but love, I don't think so. I think his tears were way more for himself than for her. I think everytime he fails to save somebody he loses a bit of faith in being saved himself. And then there's the predictament he put Dean in when he made him promise in Playthings that he'd kill him. I think he also cried because for the first time he really understood what he had asked of his brother. So yeah, I have a hard time believing he got that emo over Madison.

There was something else that had really bothered me but I can't for the life of me think of it right now.

VampySix

I agree the werewolf costume was terrible. My oldest son thought it was a vampire until I explained it was their version of a werewolf.

I didn't like the love scene either. I agree, Dean's was better with Cassie and Cassie couldn't have acted her way out of a paperbag with a detailed Map. I also didn't feel there was any chemistry between Dean/Cassie or Sam/Madison. There is so much chemistry between the boys that it sucks when their supposed "love interest" for the episode is so lacking in chemistry with them. I'd rather Jared's real life girlfriend have played the part. Maybe then, it wouldn't have looked or felt so forced. I mean seriously, was I supposed to think she was right for Sam? If so, why?

Okay, I hope I'm misunderstanding you girls. Biting can be so hot...just not with a werewolf. Very Happy

And not hard, just love nips. Twisted Evil

I thought Sam got way too attached to her too soon. Right from the beginning he seemed to be gunning for her, obviously attracted to her. That's more like Dean than Sam.

I know there are a gamut of theories over why Sam was crying so much at the end, but I found it odd that he was so emotional over Madison and not his girlfriend from the pilot and she had been his girlfriend for...what a year and a half, or something like that?

This is trival, but maybe it's the paralegal coming out in me, but I didn't like all the DNA left behind throughout this episode. Dean touched the garbage dumpster when they found the dead police officer. That left prints for the FBI. Even if Sam wore a condom as some have theorized, he'd have still left other DNA behind. He had been at her house for 3 days. There's no way Dean and Sam could have gotten all his DNA out of that house. I don't know. It just seems like they're leaving a heavy trail for the Feds to follow. Or, I don't know, maybe we're to assume they know how to cover their tracks and always remember to wipe away their prints. Either way, it drives me crazy every time I see them do it in an episode. Of course, I'd be bitching too if they wiped their prints down in every episode.

I liked this episode, but it didn't ring as true to character as some of the other episodes. I agree with Wardragon...it'd just be more plausible to me to keep the "love interest" out of it. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing their hot bodies bared for my easy viewing, but as for the characters, I just don't need to see them having sex. It's good enough for me to hear Dean refer to his wild night with the hot chick from the bar. I got the picture, it was sufficient, and he's wearing the thick black shakes and looks three kinds of hung over. Yeah, I got it, he had a wild night of wild sex and I didn't have to watch the video to appreciate it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Sarah

Sarah

Sarah

Jasmin

Kitty

I'm not going to comment on everything, but:

Wardargon

Dean and Sam being sloppy about leaving their own DNA evidence behind has often been a nitpick for me as well. I'm going to consider that that was exactly how and why the FBI was able to find them and knew what they'd been up to right up to that point (so I can call it canon and not a major obvious goof up). From the point the FBI started tailing them they should have started to get extremely careful about examining crime scenes and such.. And in this day and age even the tiniest bit of spittle can be found and used as evidence.. I wonder how they dealt with WereChicks body? Did they leave it, and is that going to come back and bite the boys in the ass later (Murder rap on Sam too)? It happened at the very end of the episode so the writers didn't have to deal with it any further, but I think they should keep the story tied together tightly, so it would be cool if we found out in a later episode that they'd either burned the body or the FBI got hold of it and it leads them into more trouble.

And what about dead monsters is morgues? Like when Sam and Dean waltzed into one, pulled the dead vamp chick out and popped out her set of retractable teeth.. How can nobody else have noticed that? And if werechick from Heart ends up in the morgue, she'll be autopsied, I'd expect them to find human DNA in her stomach and evidence she wasn't completely human.

Wardargon

The ending of Heart would also have been a lot more emotionally wrangling if they'd had to snuff out someone the boys new and cared about.. I keep re-watching it and thinking they wasted such fantastic angst from the brothers on some chick the viewer has no reason to give a damn about.

calicokat

Wardargon

Actually the viewer does have more reason to care about Jessica, as this is someone we know Sam had actually spent a fair amount of time with and had gotten to know and love. WereChick he just met, doesn't know the first thing about (other than she's killed and eaten people) and has no reason to have any emotional ties to her whatsoever. Heck, even toss in that Sara chick instead and at least the viewer would know that this chick he was about to kill had some actual past history with Sam and there was some actual reason he'd be crying about her having to die.

calicokat

ExtraCookie · Brief (what?! Yeah!) two cents

Quickly here; luckily for you, I'm in a big hurry!

Sam crying: Yes, cuz he understood the parallels. Yes cuz he liked this chick a lot (not IN LOVE with her, no! But he made a connection. The first big one in a while. True, maybe it happened more because he was comparing their two situations, but still, there it was). But mostly, hey, have you forgotten? This is SAMMY! Not Take-Care-Of-Business-And-Move-On Dean, but Life-Is-Precious-And-I'm-A-Total-People-Person Sammy! Sammy's just sweet like that, haven't you noticed?! He cares about people and his moral standards are very high! If NOTHING ELSE AT ALL, he would've been wrecked just to have to take a mostly-innocent life! He wouldn't even kill a vampire he'd JUST met who almost definitely used to partake of human blood because he realized she didn't do that now and felt she deserved to live as long as she wasn't! Here Madison was, with absolutely no choice in or help for the bad things she was doing. And, not only couldn't they save her, HE (felt he) had to waste her! No big mystery there, no confusion at all for me . . . that's just our Sammy!

Yeah, I thought the extreme tears were a bit much (I mused on the CW about them being possibly not all Jared's). But just a BIT. No big deal at all. Didn't ruin anything for me; still touched me deeply and Jared was great.

As already mentioned, she wasn't wolfed out when biting Sammy. In all other werewolf things I've seen, they've been wolfed out when infecting others. *shrug* Just the lore. And, when she did, I didn't seen any skin being broken. No biggy. (P.S. Biting is hot. I liked the sex scene, although it had its flaws, and Dean's was BETTER! Oh, and I liked Cassie with Dean, even though she could use some polishing on her acting. But I didn't think she was THAT bad. She definitely looked good with Dean, too. And I thought Sarah was perfect for Sam.)

Love interests: I don't care for them either, but TV is just that way and I accepted it a long time ago. TV thinks everyone HAS to have a love/sex interest always. Yeah, it's not necessarily true to life and isn't necessarily important/needed for this show, but, apparently, most TV viewers are into that. Need that. Maybe it's a teenager thing? I don't know. I don't remember being that impressed by it when I was one, but then, I'm pretty atypical! So, I think, whether we like it or not, we have to accept the girls will be there. I just hope, like someone else mentioned, they make them good characters and worthy of our guys. God, this show could be the first to give us some really unique women! Women who are strong and quirky/feisty and open-minded and who, while being pretty, etc., are also tough, brave (gotta hand it to Jo there. But NO JO with Dean. God, no!) and not afraid to get their hands dirty. Truly helpful to the guys' "profession"; not just just eye-candy and sexual tension relievers. Let's cross our fingers! Besides, do you really think any two guys as wonderful as our Winchester boys would really sail through their whole lives without some worthy woman noticing and getting them? That's NOT realistic. Some guys, as someone else mentioned, maybe do drift through without that happening, but are they as terrific, special and gorgeous as these two? I doubt it. Honestly, if they were real and I met them and either one (esp. Dean!!) wanted me, I'd jump into that Impala in a heartbeat and go wherever they did; ghostbusting and all! Believe it! Very Happy

Wow, that wasn't brief! I lied! Man, I'm running late! Bye! lol

Wardargon

That's exactly why the episode didn't work, to think that Sam developed any kind of emotional attachment to a women he doesn't know is so out of the ballpark, even for tv. It would have worked for Jess because at least then the viewers have some kind of intelligent reason to believe Sam would be upset about her (whether they cared about jess or not). This totally and completely failed, because it just doesn't happen that way. And if the whole point was to touch on that real human relationships garbage, it needs to be realistic in that sense at least. Sam didn't picture his future with her because he didn't even know if he liked her or not at that point. So again, I have to fall back on the "he was emotional because he saw his own situation in hers", which is, unless Sam's a total nutcase, far more believable.

ExtraCookie:

Actually, you'll find that sex and relationships on tv drive a lot of people away as well. Originality is the way to go, and as the X-Files proved, a show about hunting monsters can live a long healthy happy life without needing to include those same old boring cliches. You can't sell those cliches in a market already saturated with them and expect to earn much. Besides, all it does is give the show a "made-for-teens" feel which it really could do without.

Episode 2X17 "Heart"

Brief (what?! Yeah!) two cents